Caught Red-Handed Amanda - Insanely Overpowered [Deck Guide]

Card draw simulator

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Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
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kinzuuu · 669

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Edit: Sorry Table of Contents is not redirecting properly when published.

Overview


Clues: 5/5 | Enemies: 3.5/5 | Flexibility: 5/5 | Mobility: 4/5 | Mythos: 4/5 | Teamwork: 4.5/5


Level 0 Version Here: https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/1632878

Ancient Stone Gambit From X-Men Version Here: https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/1649123

Endgame Version Here: https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/1639575

Forgot to change the Accursed Follower back to Random Basic Weakness. Sorry!

TL;DR: Draw half your deck every turn, win every type of skill test with ease, and have near infinite soak.


This is a deck guide for my The Red-Gloved Man Amanda Sharpe build, one of the most fun and overpowered Seeker decks that uses the latest taboo, that I've ever played. Amanda Sharpe has some of the fastest if not the fastest draw power in the game that is action compressed. Meaning she draws an insane amount of cards while doing other actions like investigating, fighting, evading, parleying, treacheries, etc. The main idea is to abuse her ability to use the same high-powered skill card at least 3 times per turn.

I believe that this particular build of Amanda Sharpe that abuses off-coloured skill cards is one of the strongest overall investigators in Arkham Horror LCG and this particular configuration is probably one of the most optimized builds for Amanda Sharpe with the current card list (non Edge of Earth because we don't actually need any of those cards). Many of the Amanda Sharpe decks on arkhamdb are outdated or don't attempt to abuse her ability to this extent because they mistakenly run too many assets or events.

The main premise for this deck is to abuse high-powered skill cards like Unrelenting, Perception, Deduction, and Momentum using Amanda Sharpe's ability. We pair these skill-cards with assets like Dream-Enhancing Serum and The Red-Gloved Man and events like Cryptic Research and Cryptic Writings to pass every skill test with incredible ease and to cycle our deck at lightning speeds.

This deck is able to be able to play and pay for The Red-Gloved Man at least every 2 out of 3 turns because of the deck's ability to aggressively cycle. By tucking Unrelenting or Perception underneath Amanda Sharpe and pairing it with The Red-Gloved Man, we pass 90% of our skill tests while drawing 2 cards per action. We test at 7 by default, but the rest of our deck supplements the skill test with copious amounts of icons, allowing us to tackle every kind of skill test.

This is the "finished" decklist of 37 experience. You can easily reach this amount of experience well before the conclusion of the campaign, possibly even 3 or 4 scenarios before the end, allowing you to play with an incredibly fun and powerful deck with many options and decision making.

You don't even need The Red-Gloved Man for this to work because of the sheer amount of skill icons in the deck. The Red-Gloved Man is just what makes this deck insane because it gives 4/4 soak, is fast and is easily afforded through cycling Cryptic Writings.

We only play assets that have passives, , and effects because we always want to be doing 3 actions where we can commit the card underneath Amanda Sharpe. Similarly, we only play events that are fast because we don't to waste any of our actions playing cards that don't involve skill tests. We want to avoid cards that have limited charges because that takes away from what our deck is capable of doing. The power level of cards with charges on them will pale in comparison to the amount of times we can commit Deductions and Unrelentings in a scenario.

I would rank this particular build of Amanda Sharpe to be among the top decks in the game with the current taboo along with:

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS A DECK-LIST DESIGNED FOR HARD MODE MULTI-PLAYER AND BELOW BECAUSE OF HOW Unrelenting WORKS. THIS DECK CAN EASILY TRIVIALIZE EXPERT AS WELL, BUT REQUIRES TOKEN SETUP, EITHER THROUGH COORDINATION WITH YOUR TEAMMATES OR Signum Crucis AND Tempt Fate.


Upgrade Priority

1. Unrelenting x2 - 4 experience

  • Our absolute bread and butter. One of the most flexible skill cards in the deck because it seals bad tokens or it can draw us 6 cards in 1 turn. Replace 1x copy of Inquiring Mind and Burning the Midnight Oil.

2a. Cryptic Research x2 - 8 experience

  • Fast card draw is absolutely necessary to refill our hand without having to spend an action and to maximize Unrelenting turns. Replace Deep Knowledge with these.

2b. Miskatonic Archaeology Funding - 4 experience

3. Dream Diary - 3 experience

  • You get crazy value out of this card in early scenarios because of the supplemental icons and you can tuck it underneath to become a pseudo 6-6-6-6 investigator. Also helps teammates. It might be a bit awkward to be holding onto base level 0 Dream Diary until you finish the previous upgrades, but it is very understandable to buy it even earlier.

4. Perception x2 - 4 experience

  • It's more card draw and a fat 3 skill icons. You can opt to get The Red-Gloved Man instead but your consistency won't be as good.

5. The Red-Gloved Man x2 - 10 experience

  • After you get all your card draw cards, you can go ahead and grab these. And at this point, the deck should be running silky smooth like a baby's bottom. Replace Dr. Milan Christopher and Magnifying Glass for it.

6. Momentum x2 - 2 experience

  • You can fit these in any time if you have the extra experience. These will allow you to do any skill test at -3 difficulty or -6 if you commit two (not sure if that's allowed to be honest), which will allow you to flex into any skill test needed whether it be parleys, on treacheries or locations, so as long as you over-succeed on the first test.

7. Deduction x2 - 4 experience

  • You should really be getting these last, because the level 0 version does the same thing basically. Depending on the amount of other players, it might matter more. For example, in 3 player, locations that spawn with 2 for a total of 6 clues can be cleared out in 2 actions vs 3.

8. Cryptic Writings x2 - 4 experience

  • This will net you 4 resources most of the time, which will you let you pay for more things earlier. Not that big of a deal until you decide to invest in certain luxury purchases highlighted below. Turns into 1 icon which is nice.

9.Signum Crucis x2 - 4 experience

  • Get this if you're playing on expert to activate Unrelenting, or if you have synergy with teammates. It's counter synergestic with The Red-Gloved Man, so you will waste an action with our 2-2-2-2 base to put tokens in.

Luxury Upgrades

1. Pathfinder

  • Waste less actions moving.

2. Vicious Blow

  • Now you can potentially deal 9 damage in 1 turn.

3. The World • XXI

  • More fast card draw. You now draw 5 cards per turn passively with this. A little difficult to afford early without seeing Cryptic Writings a couple times already.

4. Grisly Totem

5. Versatile

  • The ultimate endgame version of this deck runs this with Quick Thinking and Cryptographic Cipher to allow for 5 skill tests per round, and we can consistently cycle them and see them multiple times, allowing us many extra actions in the scenario.

After you get setup with the endgame version of the deck, you will have monster turns with 5 high value actions per turn that can clear any skill test, and draw half your deck, along with near infinite soak and high mobility.

Like with my Tony Morgan guide, I've included all the upgrades in the side deck for easy viewing and other possible interesting and janky options like Gaze of Ouraxsh, Ancestral Knowledge, and Blasphemous Covenant.


Playstyle

Your mulligan priority should be as follows:

  1. Cryptic Research (Deep Knowledge for the base level 0 deck)
  2. Laboratory Assistant
  3. Dream-Enhancing Serum
  4. Unrelenting
  5. Perception
  6. Dream Diary
  7. The Red-Gloved Man

What we want to do with this deck is get all of our assets out ASAP and then start drawing cards. Cryptic Research is just a free draw 3 cards in your opening hand so it should always be #1 priority to mulligan for because it's basically starting your opening hand with 7 cards. One of the best things about this deck is how fast it gets setup. Due to the sheer amount of card draw that we possess, we can get setup as early as turn 2 or 3. After that, it's off to the races with the card draw.

If you have at least 1 Laboratory Assistant or Dream-Enhancing Serum out, then if you can play The Red-Gloved Man with Unrelenting or Perception, you should.

Here are some example turns that are possible with this deck:

  1. You play The Red-Gloved Man and you investigate your location 3 times at 7 default skill value with Unrelenting sealing the 0, 0 and +1, drawing 6+ cards and getting 3+ clues in one turn, the + being possibilities if you commit Deduction, Eureka!, or Perception. You can easily pass a 3 shroud location 3 times on Hard difficulty without any help, or you can easily pass a 4 shroud location 3 times with 1 other committed skill card.

  2. You tuck Deduction underneath you for the turn. You play The Red-Gloved Man, use Practice Makes Perfect and tutor out a Momentum for an investigation. You commit Eureka! and Perception, and the shroud is 4. You're testing 13 on 4 and pull a -6 token, and succeed by 3. You get 3 clues, draw 2 cards, your next skill test difficulty is reduced by 3 and you get Momentum back into your hand. You either do it again and most certainly smash the test at -3 difficulty, or you can do any skill test you want at -3 difficulty at 6 skill value, allowing you to be super flexible.

  3. How To Draw 21 Cards in 1 Turn:

    1. Investigation Phase starts. Total Cards Drawn: 1
    2. Put Unrelenting underneath Amanda Sharpe
    3. Play Cryptic Research on yourself. Total Cards Drawn: 4
    4. Use 2x copies of Dream-Enhancing Serum. Total Cards Drawn: 6
    5. Shortcut to a location with 3-6 clues and no enemies, 5 shroud or lower.
    6. Play The Red-Gloved Man and boost and whatever.
    7. Investigate, committing Unrelenting, Perception, and Momentum. Seal the 0,0,+1, test at 11 on 4 for example. Pull a -4 token, win by 3, draw 2 from Unrelenting and 2 from Perception. Total Cards Drawn: 10.
    8. Repeat Step 7, committing 1 copy of Eureka! as well. If you don't have another copy of Perception at this point after drawing 10 cards, use Practice Makes Perfect. Total Cards Drawn: 15.
    9. Repeat Step 8. Already used 2 copies of Perception unless tutored with Practice Makes Perfect. Total Cards Drawn: 18
    10. Probably drawn 2nd copy of Cryptic Research at this point after 18 cards drawn. Play Cryptic Research on self again. Total Cards Drawn: 21.
    11. Do all this while committing Deduction to get up to 9 clues in 1 turn.
    12. Play all Cryptic Writings drawn for resources.

You don't even need The Red-Gloved Man to have insane turns. Tuck Perception underneath and you're already investigating at 5 . Commit or relevant skill icons to supplement. We will almost always have an arsenal of skill icons because we draw cards so quickly so this deck functions perfectly fine even without The Red-Gloved Man.

If you want to fight enemies, all you have to do is put Vicious Blow in your deck and use all the icons that we have in this deck to win the skill test. My finished list of this deck at around ~45 or so experience (very easily achieved in certain campaigns by the way), runs Vicious Blow to allow it to be the most flexible investigator that it can be.

Shortcut will allow us to move around freely and support teammates without having to spend move actions, allowing us to be as action efficient as possible. Since we cycle so incredibly fast, expect to be able to use Shortcut at least 8+ times in a scenario.

This deck draws at least 4 cards passively almost every round through 2x Dream-Enhancing Serum, our investigator passive, and upkeep and probably cycles on average 7-8 times in a scenario, so just make sure you have The Red-Gloved Man to soak the horror when you do. You can even kill off Laboratory Assistant and replay them for the soak. It's what I did when I didn't have The Red-Gloved Man yet.


Endgame Version of The Deck: https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/1639575

The endgame version of this deck requires a bit more setup and is mostly attainable by the 3rd last scenario depending on the campaign. We add Cryptographic Cipher and Quick Thinking after getting Versatile so that we can potentially have 5 actions a turn. We upgrade Cryptic Writings so we can reliably pay for it and we add more passive card draw through Grisly Totem and The World • XXI. Cards like Grisly Totem can be added earlier in the scenario if you want and Cryptographic Cipher can be added from the start, but expect it to be less potent before getting The Red-Gloved Man. Our turns can now potentially see the use of any given single skill card 5 times in a turn. We can draw 10 cards from skill tests alone with a single copy of Unrelenting or Perception, or potentially 15 clues in a turn from Deduction. Absolutely disgusting. Takes a little longer to setup due to adding in 5 cards and assets, but the ceiling on the power level goes up which is worth it.


Multiplayer or Solo

This is a decklist that was designed and used in a 3 player Hard campaign run of Return to The Forgotten Age and is incredibly strong in multiplayer.

However, after witnessing the strength of this deck it can very much be viable in true solo because it can do everything. However, experience is harder to come by in true solo, delaying the power-spike of this deck. Logically, if you just add Vicious Blows in, the base version of the deck is capable of investigating, evading, and fighting, so in theory it should be viable in true solo. If you can somehow get to a deck that resembles this one, it should be able to take on true solo Expert campaigns.


Strengths:

Can carry the load for clues

Super consistent

  • More card draw means more consistency. We draw 4 cards every turn passively from Dream-Enhancing Serum, upkeep, and the investigator passive.

Flexible

  • Can do any skill test because of all the wild icons and Momentum. Can even fight with Vicious Blow and deal up to 9 damage in 1 turn. Personally, I've had my fair share of evades with this deck simply because it can do that.

Resilient

  • Again because of all the skill icons, this deck can be very resilient against the Mythos deck.

Experience curve

  • This isn't a useless deck without experience. It gets exponentially better with each upgrade until it gets astronomically good at critical mass.

Doesn't take much setup

  • Relying on skill cards means that you can start doing things from the get go without having to play assets. Also, the deck plays minimal assets that have passive effects and don't need maintenance or upkeep.

Weaknesses:

Our signature weakness is easy to deal with, but RNG sometimes

  • Whispers from the Deep can just be drawn and committed to a random skill-test that is either a throwaway or an oversucceed where -1 doesn't affect anything. The deck cycles fast so we see this card multiple times, and it can sometimes be unlucky that we draw it on upkeep and therefore have to interact with the "Forced:" text.

Any basic weakness that gets really bad when cycling it multiple times

Curse Tokens

  • Sometimes we use Promise of Power and Deep Knowledge a lot, and the tokens can add-up. Depending on other people's decks, this might be actually be a strength. However, we have so many skill icons that it doesn't really matter for the most part. Sometimes you get combo'd into a -6 for a -8, but that's super rare.

Damage and Horror


Deck Breakdown:

Core Cards (Non-Experienced Assets)

Dream Diary

  • Need at least 1 copy to upgrade into Dream Diary. No point in getting 2. Pretty easy to do the miniquest given how easy it is for our deck to succeed at skill tests. We draw an extra card every turn as well, so we're more likely to see singleton cards than other investigators.

Dream-Enhancing Serum

  • Incredibly useful core card. Increases our hand-size and lets us draw cards passively. Amazing card, borderline overpowered in this deck.

Tooth of Eztli and Grisly Totem

  • We don't need an accessory slot because Dream-Enhancing Serum is just better. Tooth of Eztli doesn't proc as reliably as we want to justify paying 3 resources and an action for. Level 0 Grisly Totem doesn't even draw a card, just gives an extra skill icon every turn which isn't worth it in our deck that has tons of skill cards.

Laboratory Assistant

  • Bread and butter, cheap to play, immediate impact upon entering play, has soak, and increases our max hand size to 10 and 12 for having 2 in play. Even if we have Dream-Enhancing Serum, the max hand size is very relevant due to how many cards we draw. This is just clearly the best non-experienced ally for this deck.

Dr. Milan Christopher

  • Passive income that is somewhat irrelevant. We only get him for the passive . Can't really justify playing Whitton Greene over him because we have no Relics or Tomes. Gets replaced by The Red-Gloved Man.

Magnifying Glass

  • We run this over Celaeno Fragments because it's fast, and earlier scenarios is harder to maintain a big hand size. Once we get The Red-Gloved Man, it becomes irrelevant, and is taken out of the deck. It's great in earlier scenarios though because we can run 2 if you already did the Dream Diary miniquest.

Core Cards (Non-Experienced Events and Skills)

Deep Knowledge

  • 1 action to Draw 3 but add 2 tokens is pretty worth it. Just make sure your teammates are okay with it. Can also draw teammates cards in a pinch. We replace this pretty fast with Cryptic Research because 1 action is too clunky in this deck.

Burning the Midnight Oil

  • It's either this or Crack the Case, but since the base deck is investigating already and Crack the Case is unreliable, we take this for more on demand resources.

Cryptic Writings

  • This is our main resource engine because we get to play it for free most of the time from all of our card draws. It also has 2 icons which is definitely relevant.

Practice Makes Perfect

  • This deck would be so much worse if not for this card. An absolutely insane card that let's us tutor out important skill cards and let's us double down. We can use it to pass skill tests and find a suitable card to put underneath for next turn. Super synergistic with Amanda Sharpe because we can take Practiced skills level 0-3. Possibly the best user of this card, competing with Mandy Thompson.

Shortcut

  • One of the best level 0 events. It's just a free move, and can also move teammates. We see this card frequently due to the cycling and it can carry all of our movements in a scenario.

Curiosity

  • Just good level 0 supplementary skill icons that can help pass treacheries and investigations. Very often committed for 3 icons.

Deduction

  • Obvious staple, makes our investigations really good.

Inquiring Mind

  • 3 with little to no downside is no joke for a level 0 card. Sometimes it becomes a dead card though due to all the locations being cleared out. Really good early game card because of it's flexibility and you can help out teammates. Unexpected Courage is viable replacement, but the 3rd icon definitely matters.

Eureka!

  • Good skill icons, and the search is definitely non-trivial. Combo it with other skill cards for fat card draw.

Perception

  • Draws 3 cards on 3 successful investigations, and has 2 , clear staple for the deck.

Promise of Power

  • This card is honestly so good even if it adds tokens. 4 fat icons, basically lets you pass any test if need be. Not recommended to tuck it underneath unless you're desperate. Used as more of a Practice Makes Perfect target and supplemental skill card for the actual card underneath Amanda Sharpe.

Prophesy

  • Only reason we have this over Unexpected Courage is because it's another Practice Makes Perfect target. We don't run 2 because it's really inconsistent and sometimes just 2 icons because the Agenda advances at 6.

Unlike my Tony Morgan guide, I won't cover other viable options because this deck type is very specialized and optimized where I don't think other cards are worth it. As for the experienced cards, I go over them in the Upgrade Priority section.

Conclusion

Thank you for reading my Caught Red-Handed Amanda Sharpe guide. I think that Amanda Sharpe is often overlooked when people talk about "Best Seeker" investigators, myself included until I made this deck. This is easily one of the most fun and powerful decks I've ever played, there are just so many options and different decisions you can make that makes playing this deck a very unique experience.

Please leave any feedback or share your experiences with the deck in the comments!

33 comments

Sep 19, 2021 suika · 8001

I agree with most of what's written except the "strongest deck" bit. It's strong, but the bar for "strongest" for seekers is pretty darn high.

Apart from that, IMO Grisly Totem (3) is much stronger than Dream Diary for the same XP, given the number of wilds you already have and accelerates your deck cycling speed, particularly at lower XP amounts. Take the Initiative and Plan of Action are more useful filler Practiced skill cards compared to the likes of Prophecy and Curiosity. I've also had great success dropping some of those filler skill cards for Guided by the Unseen with Astounding Revelation to recharge it, which is pretty nuts on Amanda if you want to be in a better support role so you don't outshine your teammates too much.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika Thanks for your comments. If you're playing on Hard and with the current taboo list, I'm sticking with my guns on that comment. Can you show me a deck list of another investigator that's even stronger? Refer to my section on Drawing 21 cards in 1 turn. This turn happens quite frequently and I don't really see any other Seeker doing that. Granted, I am using a bit of hyperbole, but it is without a doubt one of the best decks I've ever played on Hard difficulty. Expert requires a bit more setup with tokens, but the power level is the same once you get there.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika As for your comments on Grisly Totem over Dream Diary, I would say it's a 50/50. It's 4 wild icons vs 1, and you can put Essence of the Dream under you if need be. I found that once I got 2x copies of The Red-Gloved Man, that I would rather have Grisly Totem, but I think Dream Diary is better in earlier scenarios with less experience.

With the amount of card draw this deck possesses, we will never need to use cards like Guided by the Unseen, and Astounding Revelation becomes a dead card when drawn. Filler skill cards in this regard become much better and more flexible because of how frequently we see them. Also Guided by the Unseen was errata'd so that you can't infinitely search your deck for Researched cards making it even less appealing.

With regards to Take the Initiative and Plan of Action, the deck after 4 measly experience getting Unrelenting and Momentum doesn't need any more filler Practiced cards. Take the Initiative is restricted to you going first, so it's without a doubt better in solo, but arguable with the more players you have. Take the Initiative becoming a dead card when not going first is enough reason for a non main fighter/evader to not take the card.

Plan of Action maxes out at 2 icons and you're only getting max value if you do different statted skill tests. However, I do acknowledge the upside of the card draw and it being Practiced, but overall I don't think you need to put in all the Practiced cards just because you run Practice Makes Perfect. Personally, I've never whiffed with Practice Makes Perfect in any experience levels of this deck.

Curiosity is just a better defensive card, you're almost always getting 3 icons and that certainly matters for treacheries. Especially when you get more card draw and more Practice Makes Perfect targets, this card is still relevant for me in late campaign situations.

Sep 19, 2021 suika · 8001

the deck after 4 measly experience getting Unrelenting and Momentum doesn't need any more filler Practiced cards.

You still have Curiosity and Prophecy as filler cards. Take the Initiative does better for the same defensive purpose since it helps for Willpower treacheries as well. Ditto for Plan of Action over Prophecy, especially when boosted by Totem (3), since it'll cantrip itself into another more useful card.

Totem (0) is optional, but Totem (3) is way better better than Dream Diary because your cards are on average better than 4 icons, and it's rare when you actually need it when your base stats are already that high. Better to have another skill card that gives you action compression (aka Deduction) than more skill boosts you don't need.

I use Guided + AR mainly as a support option. You have enough search to make it work between PMP and Guided by itself. ARs being a dead draw doesn't matter because they can trigger DES, you have more than enough draw anyway, and you can always commit them.

As for your other question, this deck is not on the same tier as Trish, Daisy, or Minh (recurring Ancient Stone is much cheaper than recurring Necronomicon, and comes online at just 16 XP). Those decks aren't any slower in getting clues and can trivialize enemies as well and take less time to come online. With the right weakness, most big-hand seeker decks can nearly go infinite with Cryptic Research, Shortcuts, Working a Hunch, and Cryptic Writings. Mandy and Joe Diamond still have taboo-legal true infinite decks, for example. Those decks mostly aren't built and played because they'll be boring, but they're still theoretically possible.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I see what you're saying and I'm not really disagreeing with you on Take the Initiative. I just don't think its strictly better because it does nothing going not first. BUT, I do agree that it's a good defensive option and probably better than Curiosity in some situations.

In terms of Prophesy, I've covered it in the guide, I don't really think its that good of a card, which is why I only run 1 copy in the base deck. It comes in clutch late in the agenda, which is why I run it over Plan of Action.

I will definitely play test the two, but I imagine I'll receive similar results. I'll have situations where 1 is better than the other, but also situations where it's worse. At the end of the day, it's personal preference in my opinion.

As for Grisly Totem being way better, I'm not so sure about that. Like I said in my previous comments, after you get The Red-Gloved Man, I would say it's better but not by a lot. I like the flexibility of having a Promise of Power with no downsides every turn and helping out my teammates, but I definitely know what you're saying. The card draw can be even more insane with Grisly Totem, hell I might even run both in future lists along with The World • XXI.

Like you said, I have enough draw anyway so I'd rather not play another asset and have Astounding Revelation make my opening hands worse while clogging up my draws. But I do understand the appeal and the upsides. From my experience though, I'm still supporting my teammates just fine with normal skill cards. I'll definitely check it out in the future and form a more educated opinion then.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I see the Minh Thi Phan deck you linked and it is indeed very strong, but it definitely doesn't get clues as fast as this deck or draw cards as fast. Ancient Stone is neat for killing enemies, but this deck can achieve decent fights with even 1 copy of level 0 Vicious Blow. I might even consider Ancient Stone for this deck and throw in Magnifying Glass, because it can probably achieve the same amount of plays through deck cycling alone. Definitely will be less potent as it requires an action to be played each time though.

I'll agree that it comes online sooner in terms of experience, but all this deck needs is Unrelenting, Miskatonic Archaeology Funding, and Cryptic Research to be really good. After The Red-Gloved Man it just becomes insane because of the skill boosts and soak. If we're talking about Expert difficulty, then I 100% agree with you, but if we're talking about Hard, then there's definitely things this deck does that are better.

In terms of actual setup in the scenario, I think this deck has an advantage in getting setup much faster than other "overpowered" archetypes because it most definitely draws cards faster and plays way less assets.

As someone who has played or played with all the decks you listed (not the infinite ones) on Expert, I can most definitely say they are on the same tier. I'm curious to see which Trish Scarborough and Daisy Walker decks you think are strictly better. I suppose Trish can draw just as fast with Double, Double, Haste, Leo De Luca, Preposterous Sketches and Easy Mark. I still think they're similar power-levels though, but I guess that's what you had issue with in the first place, was me calling this deck "the strongest", which I've already conceded that point.

As for those infinite decks you mention, if it is theoretically possible, I'm assuming with Police Badge with Joe Diamond and Swift Reflexes with Mandy Thompson then yes those are probably the strongest decks possible. When I referred to "strongest deck" I automatically ruled out any infinite decks because they go against the spirit of the game. There's really no point in playing if you can go true infinite, and FFG has seen to that with multiple taboo lists already and I imagine any existing ways to go true infinite will get taboo'd in the future if it gets popular enough.

Thanks for the discussion and feedback, I genuinely enjoy the discourse, and it was my intention to receive such feedback when I made this guide with such excessive claims.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I see the Trish Scarborough deck that you published, and my friend made a very similar deck and it's a really strong deck, kudos to you. Unfortunately, all the latest taboos have banished Segment of Onyx and Three Aces to the shadow realm, which is what made that deck so good. I do agree that that deck is probably better than this one, but if this deck had access to Three Aces and Segment of Onyx untabooed, we'd probably be having the same argument again.

Sep 19, 2021 PlzNoAutoFail · 1

First of all i just wanna say that this is an amazing long-ass detailed write-up. Any questions i had about the deck were covered somewhere in the guide so thanks for that.

Im a long time lurker/netdecker and i had to make an account to tell you that i checked this out because of the click-bait title but stayed for the edited picture of red gloved man lol and the huge guide. I tried out the deck in some random campaign scenario and the card draw is indeed no joke, i had a very similar turn to what you described in the draw 21 cards in 1 turn part of your guide, i think i drew like 16 cards and got like 7 clues from 2 locations...but the funny part was that i did it again next turn, i felt so dirty cuz i dont usually play seekers haha

Anyways i decided to play it in a real campaign with 2 of my friends and were only 2 scenarios in but the deck feels pretty good so far, the 2nd scenario was way better because of unrelnting but my friends got mad at how long my turns took cuz it took me so long to decide what skills to play lol

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@PlzNoAutoFail Thanks for reading and for the kind words. I've definitely been there on the long turns, there's definitely alot of decision making and nuance in this deck, planning out Momentums, deciding which skill card to put underneath, which skill cards to commit and when, deck, draw and discard pile management, it's why I think it's so fun!

Sep 19, 2021 suika · 8001

I might even consider Ancient Stone for this deck and throw in Magnifying Glass, because it can probably achieve the same amount of plays through deck cycling alone. Definitely will be less potent as it requires an action to be played each time though.

My point isn't that Amanda is on a tier lower than those other investigators. There are Amanda builds that are on par or better than some of those builds. My point is that this deck specifically as presented , using RGM as a payoff for all your draw, is relatively worse with worse enemy management capability and soak until RGM. Adding Vicious Blows would not change that. Adding Ancient Stones, Strange Solutions, or the Necrobook would be a different Amanda deck! Sure, they might easily but you don't have unlimited XP, and the deck as presented has prioritized other upgrades over it at this XP point.

Because if not for the use of RGM, this would be a fairly standard Amanda deck, therefore it's the inclusion of RGM specifically that I'm judging it by. It's not possible can't judge a deck by all its possible permutations; at that point it'll be just comparing how good Amanda is, not how good a particular deck is!

You have very strong deck here, there's no mistaking that. It's just not the strongest, that's all, even excluding true infinite decks. But that's entirely fine, most of those other strong decks are too strong to play in practice anyway. I'd rebuild some of those decks and publish them post taboo, but write ups are really a pain. Will publish more when I get ideas that's less cookie cutter.

Sep 19, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I understand what you're saying, but it's weird how you say you're judging this current permutation of the deck, but then say it has weak soak until you get RGM as a criticism for being relatively worse. Then you're only other example decklist is something that has relatively the same amount of soak or maybe even less, and way worse enemy management until you get upgraded Ancient Stone which you can't get until the 3rd scenario, which this deck/investigator can easily do as well and perform relatively the same with.

Like I said before, the enemy management is completely fine, good even, evades are easy and fights are easy if you just add one copy of Vicious Blow. The soak can be easily managed through cycling Laboratory Assistant.

As for adding in Strange Solution, it isn't better than getting literally one copy of level 2 Vicious Blow and fighting with RGM out so I don't know why you would mention that. We get 3 fights at 8 with Level 2 Vicious Blow and then we can cycle it incredibly fast. 2 copies is 4 exp vs 2 Strange Solutions at 8 exp that needs hand discard jank to replay them because they only have 3 charges.

The Ancient Stone variant is something I added to the guide, and I'm curious to play-test. In theory, having a passive thornmail-like asset just sitting there and only needing to be used when an enemy spawns is exactly what I built around this deck for, credits to you for pointing it out.

The Necronomicon costs 10 exp, and we don't have infinite experience like you said. I even look at that card and this deck literally does what it does already without having to pay 10 experience and play the asset over and over.

You say it looks like other standard Amanda decks without RGM, can you show me? Because I look on Arkhamdb and all of them are either outdated or not even close to this power level. Hell, this guide is the 2nd most popular Amanda deck in terms of likes already and I published it yesterday.

You keep disagreeing with me about the power level of this deck but have yet to show me adequate proof outside of the idea of theoretical infinite decks. It seems to me you either haven't play-tested this variation, or are criticizing the deck on true solo, which admittedly it isn't designed for because this list I used to play in 3 player where we have a dedicated fighter and evader. Even then it carried 40% of the evades and contributed significantly to fights when I added Vicious Blow in RtTFA Hard. I have messed around in true solo with this exact decklist + Vicious Blows, and it destroyed scenarios on Hard. However, that isn't indicative of the true solo experience because the early scenarios are notably harder which will lead to lower experience points for sure.

I play-tested the Minh Thi Phan deck you linked and even matched the experience levels and it played very similarly. It did nothing this deck couldn't do. Scavenging Ancient Stone is cute, but I hardly needed to do it because sometimes enemies don't spawn that often. The clueing power was notably slightly worse because the deck didn't cycle as fast, and there were turns where both Deductions were in the discard pile. Whereas with this deck has Deduction every turn because you only need 1 copy to use it 3 times. Another thing of note is that without RGM, you need to hold fast card draw like Cryptic Research to deal damage to enemies so you might not try and aggressively draw cards. With RGM, I can just do whatever I want because I can just soak it and play another one next turn.

As it stands, is this deck the "strongest"? Probably not because that's subjective and there's always RNG involved. Is it the strongest deck on Hard difficulty I've personally played? Yes, until proven otherwise.

I would unironically love it if you can show me actual proof and explain how other decks or even other Amanda Sharpe builds would play better than this one, as then I can improve my own deck and get better at deckbuilding.

Sep 19, 2021 PlzNoAutoFail · 1

@suika id also like to see an example decklist, cuz like ive been playing this deck and its pretty nuts you draw like minimum 10+ cards a turn no cap. im not really a seeker player tho so its hard to say but my friends havent played anything like this be4 and they usually play seeker so if theres a stronger deck plz show me lol

Sep 20, 2021 suika · 8001

@PlzNoAutoFail @kinzuuu sure, here's an Amanda deck that I've playtested recently that's better because it does 4 investigates each turn instead of 3 and gets 100% RGM uptime at a lower XP point and draws even more cards, and also generates blesses for itself because why not. It's really uncreative which is why I've never published it. I've very little motivation to publish stuff, given the amount of crud that regularly hits Popular.

It is indeed very similar to what you have here, but then again good seeker decks nearly all look alike. Pre-RGM, the deck ran 2x Dr. William T. Maleson so it has better health soak as well.

Is it the strongest deck on Hard difficulty I've personally played? Yes, until proven otherwise.

Sure, that's true. Your deck is an amazing deck, 10/10. The issue is that seeker decks go to 12. I never said this wasn't a bad deck, only that I've seen stronger non-infinite decks. I don't want to get into a pissing match on who can make the better deck.

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika Thanks for sharing! And yeah it's pretty much the same deck with the addition of Protecting the Anirniq which I didn't include because it's an Edge of the Earth card and all the cards aren't on the db yet, and I purposely made this guide for all non Edge of the Earth cards.

It's a bit disingenuous though to say that it comes online faster and therefore it's better even though you're using "non-released" (i say this loosely because most people don't have them yet) cards which would alter my deck in the same way. We use the exact same core cards, so it would come online at the same time relatively speaking in a campaign, so to say your list is better because you used less experience doesn't really make sense. I didn't even know Protecting the Anirniq existed to be honest, but it would've definitely altered my deck-building choices.

I do like your addition of Cryptographic Cipher, even though its only 2 extra actions per play, I've picked it up already in my campaign when I got Versatile. It's good, but gets way better when you get The Red-Gloved Man. I've picked up Cryptic Writings as well to offset the cost of having to replay it.

Dr. William T. Maleson could be better, I'll have to try it as well. Definitely more soak and treachery defense, but way less card draw than Laboratory Assistant.

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I know you meant no ill intent, it's just that you said this deck isn't in the same tier as other Seekers and you failed to provide any conclusive evidence (subjective, but I personally don't think that Minh Thi Phan deck you linked was on a tier above as you claimed) with current taboo. You say you've seen stronger non-infinite decks, but then fail to say which. Again, if you're referring to decks that ran old taboo'd Segment of Onyx and Three Aces then I'd have to agree, but this is with the current taboo list.

Then you claim that there are better Amanda Sharpe decks out there only to link your own creation that has 95% of the same cards. Either way, I feel like this deck trounces most Seeker decks published on this website in terms of power level because most of them are out of date. If you published your list with Protecting the Anirniq, then it is 100% better, but both decks do the same thing with very little difference. I will refrain from using hyperbole in the future because I didn't know it would rub people the wrong way like this.

"The issue is that seeker decks go to 12." You say this like I can click on most Seeker decks and it's better than this deck. Where? If I clicked on most Seeker decks on this website, they won't even be running Cryptic Research or mention it, which is an INSANE card. Show me the proof. I'm genuinely curious. 12 is 20% higher than 10, can you show me a deck that will perform 20% better than this/your deck?

Lastly, this decklist was pulled from my campaign, mid run, and it isn't even the strongest version of this deck. I've just finished Return to The City of Archives on Hard and absolutely carried my 2 other teammates. This deck absolutely smashes that scenario. I'm now going into Return to The Depths of Yoth with this list: arkhamdb.com which is more or less the final form. If I wanted to cherry pick, put any other Seeker in Return to The City of Archives, if they were stronger would they have done better than this deck?

Listen, I don't mean to go in on you like this, but I just don't see how you can say that this specific iteration of Amanda Sharpe isn't on the same tier as those other Seekers on Hard difficulty. I've played through them all and you're making it sound like there's some secret Seeker build that's way better than drawing 10+ cards a turn while getting 6-9 clues? What, is there some non-infinite deck that draws 30 cards and can get 18 clues a turn?

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

arkhamdb.com Sorry this one here.

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika I can also cherry pick your Amanda Sharpe list and say things like without Momentum and Dream Diary, your ability to flex different skill test gets worse, because even if you have The Red-Gloved Man, you can still fail certain tests unless testing at 10+ on Hard. At the same time, you only have Promise of Power to reliably support teammates succeed on hard tests because you don't have Essence of the Dream every turn. There's always nuance and context with these deckbuilding choices, and saying 1 iteration is better than the other even though they have 95% of the same core cards is a little arrogant.

Sep 20, 2021 suika · 8001

You: This is the strongest deck...I would unironically love it if you can show me actual proof and explain how other decks or even other Amanda Sharpe builds would play better than this one, as then I can improve my own deck and get better at deckbuilding.

Me: This isn't the strongest deck. Even in this specific iteration, there's room for improvement. As a trivial example, you can improve it simply by including Cryptic Cipher over Lab Assistants to get 33% more actions each round. You already have enough draw and soak to not need the Lab Assistants or their hand size boost.

You: Actually I already thought of it and that's exactly the same as my deck anyway despite never mentioning Cryptic Cipher anywhere in the deck list.

I mean sure, you use hyperbole, I point out that it's hyperbole, you then demand proof for my claim despite knowing that what you said is hyperbole...man, I really don't like where this is going. I'm done here.

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika Sigh, again you're cherry picking and it feels like you aren't even reading my actual responses. You keep dodging like 90% of what I'm actually saying in my comments/questions and ignoring any context to fit your own narrative.

You were talking as though there were other deck archetypes with Amanda Sharpe that didn't use 95% of the same cards existed that were better. All you did was link the same list with a couple changes that I already acknowledged were good changes. Of course my use of the word strongest is hyperbolic and subjective and should be interpreted as such.

You yourself never even mentioned Cryptographic Cipher as a card until I asked you for an actual deck-list. If you knew right away that this card is "strictly better" you would have mentioned it in the comments earlier, which makes me think you yourself just thought of it recently, and the fact that your deck-list contains an Edge of The Earth card makes me think you came up with that list on the spot even. My decisions to not include it in the base deck were because of resource concerns, but found out when I had more experience playing the deck that that actually wasn't as big of an issue as I initially thought and made appropriate fixes to my endgame version of the deck last night.

My issue is that you said this deck archetype isn't on the same tier as other Seekers while providing no current, or even sufficient anecdotal evidence and you repeatedly dodge owning up to this claim.

In terms of the actual content of this discussion, I believe it has been civil thus far besides you not addressing my main quarry with your comments. If you really are "done here", it's a shame you conceded on the discussion, but I really am grateful for your contribution. Thanks.

Sep 20, 2021 suika · 8001

Honestly I just grew a tad frustrated with the how the discussion was progressing, especially with how you're basically claiming all Amanda deck variants that run Cryptic Research + PMP + DES to be variants of this deck. That's isn't even archetype. Those are just cards that you want to put into every single Amanda deck ever, and almost every single seeker deck ever. That's way too generic, it's like calling Every Mystic Deck Ever an archtype. That's just the default, you don't get points just for putting those cards into a deck. Or maybe I've just played this game too much to be thinking like this.

I've recommended running the Cipher on Amanda since I first saw her. That deck I linked was a variant of a deck I specifically built to to test a Protecting the Anirniq + RGM combo a while back.

But back to your question of how this deck is a tier below: I've repeatedly said that you're unquestionably worse in enemy management. No, having a Vicious Blows or two, as in your linked final form deck, won't fix that issue; it can't compare to something like Necronomicon + KiP at at 49 XP. Stone and Necrobook decks can easily actionlessly testlessly and outdamage flamethrowers while doing everything a seeker needs to do.

Fundamentally, the question is one of payoffs, the ability to turn draw and resources into power. Cipher is an example of a payoff, turning those draw and resources into extra actions, which was missing from the inception of the deck. This deck gets a lot of draws and resources, no question. But other decks turn those draws into the likes of KiP Necronomicon spam or stone. You just have more draw, but this draw doesn't translate into much faster game progress. You investigate with 3-4 deductions a round, but other decks can also do that at these kind of XP points.

Let's talk about your Yoth deck specifically, since you bought it up. Unlike big hand Daisy, your Yoth deck is crippled if Amnesia, which Daisy or Joe can shrug off with Deny and Fool me Once, respectively. That fact alone bumps it down a tier because you'll do so much worse if you ever draw it as one of your five random basic weaknesses affects your theoretical winrate for that scenario. Said decks also more gracefully handle many other weaknesses too, losing much less tempo to the likes of Internal Injury.

I'm not sure what "standard of proof" you're looking for to rank stuff a tier below — it's subjective anyway — but in terms of average winrates there's definitely a difference between seeker decks that can gracefully handle those weaknesses and those that cannot.

I hope that settles the question to your satisfaction.

Sep 20, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@suika That's all I really wanted you to say to be honest. All your other responses pale in comparison in terms of detail. I've played this game alot but I'm still relatively new in comparison to many others, even newer to deck building guides. Your point about how other Seekers like Daisy Walker can shrug off really bad weaknesses is a very good point that I admit I did not factor in. I exclusively play campaigns, so viewing a deck in terms of standalone scenarios with extra weaknesses and large sample size win rates is something that I never considered. Based on that fact alone, if this were a competitive game, and investigators that can tank weaknesses better had 99th percentile win rates vs another investigator that has 90th or 95th percentile win rate being a tier below, then I completely agree with you. As for my "strongest" comment, I don't regret it based on the fact that we had this discussion.

If Daisy Walker who can tank bad weaknesses is S+ tier, then I view this archetype as S tier. Like you said, tiers are subjective, but in terms of grabbing clues, evading enemies, killing enemies, tempo, and supporting teammates as criteria for power, I still think this deck archetype is in the same tier. Tanking the random basic weakness better over a large sample size is something that I can admit as criteria for being a tier above.

The Cryptographic Cipher stuff is something that I was on the fence about initially, but ultimately decided not to and then proceeded to publish the deck-list from my campaign deck-list where it was missing. If I could update published deck-lists I would, but all I can do is edit in comments in the write-up.

The thing about other Amanda Sharpe decks, is that outside your own that you linked, other Amanda Sharpe decks on this website were outdated or wasn't running this combo of hyper cycling RGM. I'm not claiming that my deck with those cards is unique, I was claiming that no other popular Amanda Sharpe decks that I found on this website had decklists published that did the same thing. I know I'm not the creator of this deck archetype, I saw this idea from someone else on reddit, I'm just someone who made a guide on it. If you published your list, I wouldn't have needed to make a guide for example.

Your point about The Necronomicon and Knowledge is Power is a very good one. All you had to do was give me actual examples and I don't think this discussion would have gotten this heated. But I think the comparisons to Vicious Blow is a little more nuanced (I'm killing enemies with 1 card invested with X amount of actions, vs test-less 3 card investment, much better in Seeker because of card draw engines) because you're comparing 3 cards to 1, but yes in a theoretical max experience ceiling it is better, but at the same time, Amanda Sharpe can also play those cards and utilize them the same as other investigators, while having X amount of uses from 1 single skill card and an extra card draw per turn built in. But alas, in terms of Amanda Sharpe not being able to handle all types of weaknesses in a large sample size context, I do admit she is definitely not as good as someone like Daisy Walker who has Deny Existence, but you can always meme with Versatile but guaranteeing 1 copy of Deny Existence for every Amnesia is unreliable.

Sep 23, 2021 Cuherdir · 740

Refer to my section on Drawing 21 cards in 1 turn. This turn happens quite frequently and I don't really see any other Seeker doing that.

Remember this? "How do you cycle your deck every turn anyways?"

I just got reminded of this as 22 cards per turn literally was my conservative estimate, even with all the taboo hits it absolutely deserved, I will still wager replacing the 4 from Necronomicon in a conservative estimate can still overturn your guess of an almost optimal turn. And as I wasn't even counting Three Aces, that taboo isn't a concern for this discussion. Thing is, even those kinds of decks get outpaced by true infinity decks, and without referring to your endgame build you don't even get to claim any enemy management to speak of, just passing tests isn't that hard in the game. This seems like a decent clueving deck though.

I only skimmed through the discussion, but you seem to realize that it's about payoffs, not about carddraw for carddraw's sake and indeed, you include a useful amount of stuff there. There are stronger decks out there though, depends on what definition you want to consider. Does it matter too much at this stage of degeneracy? No, unless you want to go for infinite Depths or other shenanigans and this deck doesn't even pass that test ^^

Sep 23, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@Cuherdir I don't remember that because I started playing in 2021, and I always play taboo so unfortunately I'm past the era of using cards like Double or Nothing. I also don't consider true infinite decks to be comparable because it goes against the spirit of the game. Once you get your true infinite combo out, you just gain infinite actions and then the game is over, it's pretty pointless but yeah infinite decks are strong.

In terms of enemy management, I've gained some more experience playing the deck and a couple days ago I did 20 damage with 2 Vicious Blow in 1 turn so I think it's pretty good. That's with a lot of experience, but still, entirely possible and feasible in a campaign situation.

I don't really know what people consider to be good. This game seems like it has a casual player base from what I've seen on here, reddit/youtube, with most people not playing or realizing super broken deck types/combos, not aiming to break the game or make it super easy, but rather just play it and have fun with thematic/immersive decks.

For me, the best part of this deck is that it takes very little time and setup to get going, can immediately start grabbing clues with 1 or 2 cards, and then snowballs from there. I turn 1 grabbed 9 clues and drew 12 cards on this deck before, haven't seen any other investigator be able to do that on turn 1.

Sep 25, 2021 Lord Triloth · 1117

I also only skimmed through the discussion, but what I'd like to say about "Best Seeker deck" is that it's IMO really hard to evaluate. There's resilience, raw power, enemy management, set up, early campaing/game to evaluate and even then it's hard to say. I had a similar discussion about the best killer in the game, which imo is a Flamethrower Mark deck, and it resulted to be the exact same discussion as here.

As @Cuherdir said at some point, True Solo is the Master Class of this game. That and maybe Ironman. And in that sense this deck maybe preforms the best of the other seekers. Taking that out of the equation, I think this deck doesn't have quite enough "power" to outpreform my memory of strong end-campaign seeker decks (Necro-Daisy, AncientStoneMinh). I think their draw payoff (Necro, Glyphs, Stones, also Deduction) is just big enough to be better stat wise. RGM is good, but passing tests is not that hard with this deck anyway. I may be wrong though, because most of my memories are non-Taboo. The nerf to Necro and Rook may be impactful enough. One thing I'd also like to add, is that at some point all these decks are just too strong for the scenarios difficulty, making it even harder to evaluate.

Sep 25, 2021 Lord Triloth · 1117

Setting that aside though, I have a few ideas for the LVL0. The problem I had with BigHand decks in the past was that at LVL0 they just didn't have enough card draw to actually make their tactics work. Because most your card draw coming from your upgraded cards (Unrelenting, Research), I think it could be better to shift away a bit from big hand (removing Deep Knowledge, Curiosity) and adding UC and TTI to make the LVL 0 a bit more flexible.

(You say that you tried to minmax this deck, so I thought this would make it just a little bit better)

Sep 25, 2021 Lord Triloth · 1117

Sorry for the many comments in a row, but I forgot to add my opinion on "strongest investigator overall" (and ArkhamDB doesn't let you edit comments). I think Amanda might be up there (A/S-tier), but I don't think she really takes the crown. I said that True Solo is IMO the thing I like to evaluate this with and in TS there's people like Trish, Finn, Ashcan, Ursula, Patrice and in front of all Stella, who give this deck, especially enemy handling wise, a run for its money (especially because of the exp requirements of this deck).
Being in that tier is still "one of the strongest" in my book though tbh.

Sep 29, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@Lord Triloth Thanks for your points. I've addressed a couple of things you mentioned already and I'll mention them again.

The "strongest" stuff was just hyperbole, this game is subjective and I've already stated that in the context of large sample size win rates, an investigator like Daisy with access to Deny Existence would fair better in this sense. However, I still think that in a case by case basis where you don't roll a crippling weakness, that Amanda can see higher highs, but lower lows if you get a bad weakness.

From my own experience, I've also played all those other Seeker decks you mentioned, and they weren't better or a lot better at 30+ experience. I think the amount of more card draw you get from Unrelenting allows for even faster cycling than other Seeker decks, and it's strong at sooner points in the scenario, due to not needing as many assets to setup. I've seen so many more uses of Deductions versus any other Seeker I've played both in part of the investigator ability and more card draw, which has allowed me to experience massive clue grabbing as soon as Turn 1 and Turn 2. Having played both those other decks you mentioned, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this deck gets more clues at a faster pace than those decks in multiplayer. Couple that with the fact that I can help my teammates with 3-4 wild icons on their skill tests every turn and easily replenish that, I just don't think these other decks people are talking about are stronger in multiplayer at all (bar the crippling weakness).

In terms of dealing damage, after adding in Vicious Blow, I was able to handle enemies easily, dealing 12-20 damage in a turn, also couple that with the fact that Amanda can evade better than most other Seekers, I found the enemy management to be better in earlier scenarios (except maybe Ursula), but can't say for sure with 30+ experience. This deck was played in multiplayer so I didn't add Vicious Blow until midway through the campaign, but I easily could have added it at any point.

I disagree with your take on going away from big hand because Unrelenting costs 2 experience for 2 copies, you can even grab the new In the Thick of It card from EotE now and get it in your base deck. From my experience, Amanda with access to Unrelenting simply draws cards faster than any other investigator in the game without having to sacrifice tempo if you pass tests, which with RGM you can do with very little commitment and even with some commitment since we have so many skill cards at our disposal with very high up-time.

As for your comments about Unexpected Courage and Take The Initiative, like I said in my long write-up and comments, if this was solo, I would agree with you 100%. But this guide is geared towards multiplayer and I simply chose to have a slightly higher ceiling going for cards that can commit for 3 icons. There are nothing wrong with those cards and they are perfectly viable, but I think they are quite interchangeable with the cards that I chose to include and comes down to preference at the end of the day.

Lastly, I must reiterate that I do not play True Solo in any capacity, shape or form, so I can't really comment about how this deck performs in that regard. Any opinions I have on the matter is conjecture and not based on any personal experience. If you said multiplayer, I would have to disagree with the likes of Finn, Ashcan, Ursula, and Patrice, because I've had experience playing with these investigators in Expert multiplayer and they don't even come close to what can be done on a broken Seeker deck. But like you said, the game isn't balanced around these decks even at Expert, and I indeed found playing this deck at 50 experience to be incredibly faceroll in Return to TFA last 2 scenarios. I was able to absolutely hard carry 2 other investigators, like almost literally I could've cleared the scenario with 3 treachery draws every turn, 3x clues, and 3x boss health with all victory points.

Sep 29, 2021 Lord Triloth · 1117

After having played this deck now, I must admit that I underestimated the power of Unreleting. The card draw that card offers is hard to see in this context, but 6 cards a turn, plus two cards innately, plus Perception just adds up.
Another thing I slowly realize is that value of cards like Deduction/Vicious Blow in higher player counts. The simple re-use of this card with PMP is already hugely valuable, but being able to have it for three actions total is crazier then I would've expected. The weakness of that being of course the lack of stats with Amandas 2222, but the card draw makes up for that.
The TL;DR here I guess is that I must set my pride aside for the moment and agree with you.

Sep 30, 2021 kinzuuu · 669

@Lord Triloth Thank you for being open minded on the discussion, it's exactly those reasons that I hold the opinions that I have on Amanda decks built this way. It might sound like I'm being stubborn throughout this discussion but it's just that I haven't experienced any other non-infinite, post taboo deck that can BURST grab clues as fast, be as flexible, and setup as quickly in multiplayer.

The stats we can make up for with RGM, and even before we get him we have copious amounts of card draw with many wild icons that just after a measly 2 experience grabbing Unrelenting, the deck ran incredibly smoothly. At later experience as well you add in Versatile to add in Quick Thinking for 4 actions every 9/10 turns for the most part, at the cost of setting up slightly later.

Versatile is something that I hold the opinion on that should almost never be added to a deck for consistency purposes, but works incredibly well with Amanda because of how many cards she can use to draw cards without losing tempo. Once you're using 4 Deductions/Vicious Blows a turn (5 Deductions with Cryptographic Cipher, and 4+ with Practice Makes Perfect for double Deduction/Vicious Blow commits) and have the ability to evade anything, it gets to a point where it gets a little unfun and reminiscent of what pre-taboo non-infinite decks can do.

Granted, with the sheer amount of tests you perform, the auto-fail is a thing that exists, but the ceiling is higher than any non-infinite post taboo deck that I've played personally.

Oct 02, 2021 suika · 8001

My issue is that you said this deck archetype isn't on the same tier as other Seekers

Also just to clarify my point since I'm afraid I my point might be a bit misunderstood, Amanda is definitely not a tier below other seekers. I'd rate Amanda entirely on par with other seekers because of her relative performance at low XP. This specific Amanda deck is a tier below other seekers deck at the 30+ XP point.

It's a great job showcasing her power nonetheless.

Oct 02, 2021 suika · 8001

...huh, how the heck did that get posted? I had a tab with that half typed out comment open for like two weeks, I guess. Please ignore.

Oct 09, 2021 coolestofbeans · 1

Hey, I just finished using this deck in an Innsmouth playthrough in a 3 player on hard and i wanted to give some thoughts of what i experienced personally.

The deck was fun to play until it wasn't. I think this is a type of deck that certainly gets banned at certain tables because after even 25~ ish experience, i was doing way too much tempo wise to the point where everybody at my table were having less fun, myself included. Dont get me wrong, the deck is fun to play itself, but ive had situations like this before pre-taboo where 1 persons deck just carries 10x the amount of load as others, and i dont think that situation is fun for anyone.

As for the early scenarios, it was definitely very strong and super fun to play, it wasn't super broken or anything but it definitely was one of the stronger earlier scenario Seekers that i've played, just being able to do any test in most situations was something that i found lacking in other Seekers, bar a support Minh with many wild skills.

As for the actual deck, one of the things i noticed is how i never had a bad opening hand. Amanda draws 6 cards in her opener for the most part, and i always found some sort of card draw that let me do meaningful actions on turn 1. It had wayyyyy less setup than most other investigators i've played and after some exp, i was able to hit the ground running on turn 1, grabbing 6,7,8,9 or more clues and revealing locations with as little as needing 1 or 2 cards in my opening hand. I also drew Haunted as my basic weakness which was a pain in the ass before i got red gloved man, after that it became irrelevant.

3 things to note for me in my playthrough:

  1. Lab assistant was most definitely 100% needed after scenario 4. i had waaaayyy too many cards in my hand too often, even with dream enhancing serum i had like 8 singles and 4-6 doubles for a majority of each scenario.

  2. I found momentum to be nice but so often unnecessary for actually passing tests. The 1 thing that i did find useful with it is that it can keep skill commits to a minimum so it can keep my discard pile thin to keep cycling the handful of cards that i want without any unnecessary filler. it did come in useful for certain scenario/location skill tests and flexing onto enemy management so i ll give it that at least, for 2 experience and practiced i guess its worth it.

  3. Lastly, i'm 50/50 split on your inclusion/exclusion of cryptographic cipher. i think earlier scenarios would've been helpful, but expensive to pay for with lvl 0 cryptic writings but the later scenarios i just never found time to redeploy it consistently. it's definitely becomes one of those win more cards later where i found it to be a marginal tempo increase in an already super fast tempo deck, and in an asset light deck with only 2 economy cards, it becomes harder to play it early as you add more assets into the deck like you did in your endgame list.

At the end of the day, my table is probably banning/never playing this again because it just outpaces the game by itself and i don't really think thats fun. In terms of relative strength, definitely top tier, really reminiscent of pre-taboo decks. I cant speak for others but most of the other non Seeker investigators that ive played with takes like 2-3 turns and way more assets already played to do what Amanda can do in 1 turn. I dont think the investigator needs a taboo but maybe cards like cryptic research should remove from game after 1 use or something.

Oct 09, 2021 Rancord · 1231

I think minh Stones is better than Necro, I havent seen a infinite mandy list since the nerfs at reasonable XP and no idea what big hand daisy is.

About strongest, think Joe, Mandy, Minh, Daisy and Amanda are all fantastic. I think you need some enemy managment to go towards best deck